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Top Trends and Predictions For The Future Of Podcasting with Chris Krimitsos

Top Trends and Predictions For The Future Of Podcasting with Chris Krimitsos

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How are you doing in podcasting as a guest, host, or both?

Whether you’re a podcast guest or podcast host, gleaning insights into the future of podcasting and where the industry is heading is an essential part of your podcasting journey. In this episode, Alex Sanfilippo is joined by podcasting influencer Chris Krimitsos, who shares what he’s seeing happen in podcasting right now, along with his predictions for the future of this great medium. Get ready to learn what you need to do to continue to succeed in podcasting on either side of the microphone!

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Read the Blog Post: Top Trends and Predictions For The Future Of Podcasting with Chris Krimitsos

Chris Krimitsos, welcome to Podcasting Made Simple. So glad you’re here, man. Alex, thanks for having me, and I appreciate you considering me for this unique opportunity. Man. I feel like I, maybe people already know this; they’re going to be listening, watching later, and stuff like that, but I always think that I think of Chris Krimitsos; you’re one of the first guys to give me a shot in podcasting.

I had a podcast, and I’ll never forget it, so I’m going to tell the story real brief here, but somebody randomly, I don’t know who it was, was like, oh yeah, do you go to any of the podcasting events? There are no events for podcasters. You know, like that doesn’t exist. And yeah, there’s a big one in Orlando. I’m like, there’s no way I look it up. And sure enough, I’m like, Podfest. Is this actually for podcasters?

I emailed you, and I immediately heard back from you. And everyone says this when they meet you. When they meet Chris Krimitsos, everyone says the same thing. But for me, I’m like, we instantly became friends. I was like, I like this Chris guy. I’ll never forget telling Alecia that. And so since then, on my side, now we’re friends. I know. But immediately, I felt like Chris and I were friends.

A Trip Down Memory Lane: Reminiscing the Inception of Podfest in 2015

Man, thank you for contributing to podcasting at large for building community among podcasts. And we’ll get into some of that today. But dude, I appreciate so much who you are in this space. And thanks for what you’re doing in the space. And also, within the podcast community, you could only walk a couple of steps with someone approaching you. You and a couple of other people in our community are like what I call a modest famous. So, within Podfest, you have your little group that will come up to you. And it’s interesting to watch. It’s happy for me because I’m able to walk more freely when you’re, uh, nice. That’s funny, man.

Oh, I love that. Uh, man. Yeah. And I’m excited for every year. One of the main things I look forward to in podcasting is getting back together with the pod family of Podfest. So, uh, again, thanks for what you do, man. So today we’re going to go high level. We’re going to dive into some things as well. I might have you break some things down, but we’ll talk past, present, and future of podcasting. This is the state of podcasting we like to do every quarter: get an update from a true industry expert.

You see podcasting from a unique vantage point on multiple fronts, given the event you run, the giant podcast you and Katie are part of, the network you all are part of, or that you have created and run. So I’m excited to hear some of your stuff. But the first thing I want you to share is a brief on the past of podcasting. We’re not going to go back to its origin. I want to return to 2015 because that is when Podfest first started. Can you give us a glimpse into what Podfest looked like then?

And to get the year right quickly, is that the correct year? I think you do. We started the first meetup in 2013. And I know you’ve seen the visuals of 13 of us talking about it. And then that planted seeds to the very first. We did then a bunch of events in 2014. And then, we organized Podfest in 2015. I’ll tell you a couple of things I remember about that time. One is podcasters felt monetizing was wrong because it was such a pure medium.

Monetization Debates and the Pure Days of Podcasting: A Flashback to 2015

Should we have ads? Should we monetize? People must understand that it was a pure space with no corporate involvement back then. It was like playing in a sandbox with your listeners, but no one else was involved. There’s no industry. There are a couple of tools that were early on that helped you do it. And then we must also break through the noise of the word podcasting. People were only partially sold on that word; they needed clarification on what it meant. So that was like the infancy of podcasting. And there was Puris, who had been at it for about ten years. But in those ten years, it was very, how do you say, nascent. Even when we started, like I said, people were asking, should we monetize? So, that was the early origins of Podfest.

But then we all said to people, hey, it’s okay for you to monetize your art because you’re helping others, and you should get paid for it, but I still remember it like, you mean we could? We could reach thousands of people and make money there; it was almost like such a pure thing. People like me want to talk to these people and have an impact, so the early adapters were almost always about impact. Remember, few were about the money because there wasn’t a lot of money then, so the money people weren’t attracted yet.

“But then we all said to people, hey, it’s okay for you to monetize your art because you’re helping others, and you should get paid for it.” – Chris Krimitsos

Yeah, it was a different time for podcasting. And in many ways, I wish we’d go back a little bit. To think before we’re just like, yeah, yeah. That’s a great way to say it. It was just out of curiosity. Do you recall how many people were at that very first podcast? Now, thousands of people are in the podcast network community and show up to the events, but what was it like back in 2015 with that first one? It was like a hundred people.

It may be the beginning of the year, but it was about 100 people. And podcasting was mainly audio. Now, video is dominant in many different ways. Audio is still very present, but at the time, if you were a podcast or there was not, there was clarity if it was audio or video. So that’s another thing. If you want to go back in time, you said podcasting; there were very few, if anyone, who needed clarification with a video platform like YouTube.

It was strictly something on Apple. Spotify wasn’t even a thing yet, for a podcast didn’t offer it, so it was interesting. Stitcher there was the number two player, which now’s been folded into Pandora, I believe, so it’s funny because a lot of those early people who built tech tools too early didn’t make as much money as the people who came on the next three-four years it’s funny timing like they had a larger uh market share and everything. Still, investors and people hadn’t woken up to the industry called podcasting yet.

So that’s to lay the foundation for what podcasting is. We were very tight-knit because there weren’t many of us, and we needed each other to stay informed of the updates. So back then, a few people, like I’ll give you an example, John Lee Dumas, were prominent during that period. He created EO Fire, his Podcaster’s Paradise community. That was like his higher-end community. He probably had half of all active business podcasters in it, or they listened to the show like it was; it was a connection point. So it was Pat Flynn with Smart Passive Income. So it’s exciting how a couple of things connected, let’s say, an entire vertical, and then all the other things like true crime were just evolving and emerging.

On the Road with Chris: Insights from the Pod Tour and Podcasting Culture

You know, it’s so interesting, man, going back to that 100 or 111 people, I’ve seen some of your pod tour meetups, which we’ll talk about in a little bit here, that you’ve done that have more people than your first Podfest actually like when you say that, why yeah, someone mentioned that to me, they’re like, do you realize maybe it was you? They’re like, you realize that your meetups are attracting the same number you attracted? I was like, they should be proud. I was like, I never thought of it that way, like yeah, a good point, yeah, it’s so cool, man, and hearing about some of those, I mean, Pat Flynn, John Lee Dumas, those people that helped me from the start that I still now have the opportunity to know which is like a just a cool thing to like come full circle.

But to transition this conversation here of going from the past and more into the present, this is still something you said to me in the past, but it sets an excellent framework here. When I first met you, one of our first conversations about podcasting wasn’t just about life. We sat there, and you told me something like Alex, did you realize there are only about 20,000 real podcasters? And I was like, okay, what does that mean exactly? You said those are the people involved and will stick with it; that isn’t just going to churn out of the industry and podfade those people sticking with it.

And your goal at that point was for 10% of them to be involved in Podfest, which you far surpassed. Uh, but at that point, I was just like 20,000, like everyone talks about; I think there were 700,000. How is there only 20,000? Right. But, at this point, what you were sharing then, which was hard to validate, has been validated and proven genuine. And if we fast forward till today and keep this evergreen here, it turns into about 3000 additional podcasters per year.

Since you first told me that, which I believe was 2018. And so it comes in to be about 3000 additional per year, which is like the proper growth of the industry. And we now call this the actively established podcast category. That’s like what we’ve coined it, but seeing that you’ve been on tour, you, this pod tour, Podfest, right? It’s like you’re in front of podcasters. Those are the real podcasters. People are going to stick with it. What is it that you’re learning from these individuals? What do you see involved in the culture of podcasting? We talked about where it came from. What is it like now?

The people who will be the ones sticking with it are in the community; they’re part of this thing. Let’s break down that number because I know you have what’s the website you created where people can see the stats. Yeah, it’s on PodMatch. And it’s just in the top right corner. It’s called the actively established podcast report. Well, no, that’s important for people to know that you could Google it and find it.

Actively Established Podcast Category: Decoding the Numbers and Growth Trends

What is the number that you consider active? Launch in the last 45 days is what 300,000 or something like that. They’ve posted an episode within the last 45 days, and they have more than one episode. So that was also a thing. There’s about 38,000 as we’re recording this. But again, what I did antidotally just so because people I want to be very clear because I don’t want them calling us out on these numbers. What I did antidotally at the time was like, okay, there’s like millions of feeds of those feeds. Supposedly, there are 300,000.

And, as you said, that was published in six months or something. I don’t know how they came up with it, but it was a very loose definition. Then, use Pareto’s principle. If 200,000 are considered active, only 10% of that is what we consider super active. So that was like 20,000. And then what percentage of that would even go to a conference? And I did 10% of that. So that’s how I came up with those numbers.

By the way, YouTubers, there’s like 32 times more. It’s it’s a hundred times more. There are a lot more YouTubers, But again, how many YouTubers consider themselves YouTubers? Very few, and what I mean by that is many people will create a show for different reasons. Right? They have a message that they want to get out there. Still, they need to be more loyal to the platform that gives them the opportunity, so a small percentage realizes that we need to get together and compare notes because this stuff will change, and we want to be around the corner. That’s what Podfest does.

“YouTubers, there’s like 32 times more. It’s it’s a hundred times more. There are a lot more YouTubers.” – Chris Krimitsos

And then, the second part of your question, could you remind me quickly what it was? Yeah, talking about the man, you’re on your pod tour right now. So you’re like, what are we talking about here? Oh, okay, the pod tour, yes. Yeah, I’m going later on tonight. What are you learning from it, man? You’re gone every other day.

Luckily, the floor stopped, and I could get back home. I’m learning that podcasting no longer has an audio-only definition. I say that because I had a guy down by the Texas border. His name is Bumper, and he makes Tex-Mex music and streams it on Facebook. But it is styled as a podcast- it’s a talk show. He has these Texano musicians come by, and he’s sponsored. I gave him some tips. I said, one, keep what you’re doing.

Defining Podcasting: RSS Feeds, Ownership, and the Essence of Authentic Podcasts

But if we take that to a podcast, it also has an additional home because the CPM is much you could get; if you have a decent-sized audience, you can make much more money. But then he’s also using music, so there’s a lot of nuances. I’m still a big believer in RSS owning your feed because, like, in Canada now, they’re trying to convict podcasts and create rules about language.

And I’ll give people an example of how that affects people. Let’s say you’re a Democrat-type podcast, and you hate Trump, and you talk about how much you hate Trump. There’s AI right now that will flag Trump and demonetize that podcast. So what people don’t realize is it’s going all different ways, and it’s affecting everybody. So I’m huge on the freedom of use.

It’s a podcast and what it represents, but what’s happening is people. The newer people who come in need help understanding what I just said. Like RSS, you own your feed, so they’re creating a podcast on YouTube, or they might have a micro podcast on TikTok. They consider it, and it could be a podcast in an interview format that they clip three minutes out only. So what I’m seeing now, Alex, is I’m traveling; I always have to ask what platform you are using.

Do you have audio? I always want to know if you have audio. Sometimes, they can’t have audio because it’s very visual. So then I’ll ask them if they have a subscription service. Do you have a Patreon or local page afterward so people can? So I’m huge on people having a robust ecosystem because, having traveled the last couple of years, I think this year is better than the last couple of years. I’ve seen people who don’t even talk about politics getting banned for what they’re talking about. Many of them are in the health and wellness niche.

Around different remedies, sometimes not even relating to COVID. But these new rules happen and scale across the platform for anyone discussing homeopathic stuff. So, first, I’m very optimistic about the future. Podcasting has a vast, long tail. Two, many people using video platforms consider that they have a podcast. I agree that they do have a podcast. Still, I would assert to make sure that their podcast is protected by having other outlets where their audio is protected, and part of that is having a hosting company that can protect your feed and sent because most people Alex know they’ll be like, Oh, I dare I put it out over YouTube like they don’t even know that you could have a feed. There, I don’t know; now, how many?

“…many people using video platforms consider that they have a podcast. I agree that they do have a podcast. Still, I would assert to make sure that their podcast is protected by having other outlets where their audio is protected, and part of that is having a hosting company that can protect your feed.” – Chris Krimitsos

You know how many players there are, but I’m there, lose track it might. It’s over a thousand, but in the hundreds, I know, and I know Katie, my wife. She has a checklist to ensure her shows are listed on every platform. And sometimes we catch a couple that, you know, the feed didn’t go through. And that’s very powerful about podcasting. That’s a summary of how podcasting now means a lot of different things.

Some people do video only; it’s considered a podcast. And then we have to be very careful about regulations. We don’t want podcasting regulated like radio because many voices are already here. We’ll be gone over the next generation as if that ever happens. That’s a lot of precious stuff you just shared there. And one of the main things I want to highlight is what is a podcast, right? The definition of it. If we return to the original, Adam Curry and Dave Weiner, correct?

Returning to what it is, they say a podcast is based on an RSS feed, typically audio only. Some people figured out how to put a video into that, which is fantastic. But it’s still RSS, which is what you control, what you own. And I’m finding exactly what you’re saying to be entirely accurate. It’s a very regular occurrence. Now somebody emails us, ” Hey, why can’t I join the PodMatch? It’s saying I don’t have a podcast. And it’s because, for us, you have to have an RSS feed. If you don’t have an RSS feed, our current definition is, well, you don’t have a podcast because that is what a podcast is, right? And so we’re educating people and discovering if they’re looking up how to podcast.

And we’re talking to podcast guests and hosts today. So if you’re a guest saying, okay, this sounds interesting, but I don’t have a podcast, look at what someone’s using to quote-unquote podcast, right? Ask who their hosting provider is and if they have an RSS feed because online education is becoming very loose when you start typing in podcasting. For that reason, for people who have been in it for a while, we must be part of the podcasting community and educate future people on what podcasting is.

The Evolution of Community in Podcasting

And Chris, that’s an excellent transition for talking about today. And then we’ll get into the future in a second here. But what role does community play in podcasting and community? The word community? It has shifted over the last five or six years at this point of what that even means. But I’d love to hear your perspective on what pod tours are doing, what Podfest is doing to help people understand, Hey, this is still the core of what we do, like going back to like the pure core that has like, what does that look like in it from your perspective?

So what people need to realize pre-COVID, podcasters are, we were all virtual. That’s the nature of a podcast. So, we needed Podfest to connect. Then, post-COVID, we realized many cities no longer have meetups. Yeah, putting on a meetup is very costly and takes a lot of time. So we figured, like evangelists, why don’t we go out to a city, find local leaders to help us, and see if we have any small sponsors that could help defray some of the costs?

Most of the costs are invested by Podfest itself, but we could educate people where they’re at and then bring them to the fold at Podfest. So I was happy if we had 10 to 20 people. We’re getting 70 to 80 people at least half of these, and the rest are 30 to 20.

And now and then, we get 10 to 12, and we’re happy to have all the numbers we don’t care about. But it’s just interesting to see how big these meetups are getting. People seek information, direction, support, and a community they can tap into. And as creators, it’s more important than ever to know other creators and have a community. We’re like an antidote to that: we have a caring, loving community. We don’t judge our attendees. We make sure that they all feel welcome. And then they could plug in and learn. Now, when you talk about podcasting, the top two things people need to know outside of setting up a podcast, and we do have tracks that cover it. They need to know how I grow my podcast. So that’s like interview skills, quality.

And how do I monetize down the road as they get bigger? They want to monetize in some way, shape or form. And what happens is our community members, like yourself, have some of the best masterclasses you can’t find anywhere else because these people were homegrown from the community sharing their best tips. So you walk into these rooms, you walk away with tons of great ideas.

But you also know you’re not alone. That’s a big deal with any community. Like you’re not siloed by yourself and that there’s a path to, I don’t want to call it success, but a path to, like, if you want something growth-wise, there’s clues and other podcasters leave those clues so you can feel that you’re maximizing your creatorship as a podcaster.

Man, I’m thinking now about myself as a podcaster. Again, I was very new when I started going to Podfest. That’s really what helped me. And so I just considered paying it forward. Now I’m on stage, and someone will even replace that at some point. The person on stage will be educating, just passing off the next generation. And what I love is that it builds that sense of community. And it’s so needed among podcasters, pure podcasters, right? The ones that are using RSS. Cause you think about it’s one of the few.

In forms of creation, there’s no natural direct way to hear from listeners. For example, even if you have a YouTube channel, you have this massive comment section, which may be good or bad—I will not get into that. But generally, if you’re on stage, you have people there. Podcasting is one of the few; you can feel alone if you don’t intentionally get out and seek community. So what’s better than being among other podcasters, right? Connect with your listeners by all means. Please find ways to do that. And then, if you’re the actual guest.

“In forms of creation, there’s no natural direct way to hear from listeners.” – Alex Sanfilippo

I will be posting that stuff so you can have people tell you what you spoke to me. The importance of community, though, cannot be understated. It’s so important. You know, and this makes me think, man, something else about the podcasting industry and a form of community. This is a transition, but it will be a bit more high-level and suitable for everyone to hear. This is getting the future of it.

Challenges and Opportunities in Podcasting Tools

I’m on the software side of podcasting. Yes, I’m a host. Yes, I’m an educator myself and constantly learning as well. But I’ve noticed over the last couple of years that you and I have both seen and talked about a few times that the small startups in podcasting are one of two things happening to them. One, they’re mainly, unfortunately, they’re shutting their doors. So, everyone is forced to find different solutions. Or two, they’re getting bought up by the vast podcasting companies that came in when they saw the dollars. I don’t know if this is good or bad for the industry, but I’d love to hear your perspective. Again, you have a very different vantage point.

What do you think about the tools, software, and things that support podcasters in that shift we’re seeing in this space? As the space grows, the tools usually consolidate to a handful of players. Then they go to the market and usually dominate and use that as a revenue multiplier, you know, whatever. It could be good as long as they’re innovating. It doesn’t become good when they stagnate.

And also, it’s good for the consumer because now they have one place where they could have five or six different things successfully done. That being said, there are a lot of opportunities for other companies to take advantage. Right now, you and I see you’re one of the early adapters in AI, but the AI tools coming out are ginormous, and they’re doing a great job. The challenge with AI is that it’s becoming so good that people could eventually make their own AI tools to do what these tools are doing.

It’ll take some time for that to happen, but it’s just weird. Now, PodMatch is a complicated tool because you need to vet the people. There’s work to be done in the vetting process. But if you’re talking about a tool like show notes or transcription, some big tools like ChatGPT can make your custom tool do what it wants automatically, so that’s still a year or two away. Still, watching innovation happening at the speed of light is fascinating. Podcasting is now considered the legitimate platform to go on a book tour. That sounds like a small thing. That’s not a tiny thing.

“Podcasting is now considered the legitimate platform to go on a book tour. That sounds like a small thing. That’s not a tiny thing..” – Alex Sanfilippo

For example, when you used to go on a book tour, you’d have to have a PR agent connected to the Today Show and different shows. You had to be in the know. Now, you could be a niche creator, have a few relationships through PodMatch or Podfest, and go on a mini book tour and promote your book to that specific niche. The reason why that’s important is it allows ideas to explode within small niche communities and increase, which, back in the day, was reserved for the few who had connections and money.

Or the right Simon and Schuster or Manhattan agent. So that’s decentralized out. So that’s a perfect thing for the creator moving forward. But we’re in a period of consolidation, Alex. So, like what you and I have seen with some of the more significant tools in our space, we will see that happen with the AI tools in my gut. Either they will get gobbled up by a more significant tool with different pieces, or that enormous tool will create its own AI and replace these niche players. So right now, there’s probably.

We recommend nine to 10 AI tools that are great for podcasters. Only two will probably survive, and then they’ll get gobbled up by a more significant player. If you ask the entrepreneurs in the space, most of them, you’re one of the odd ones out. Why did they create the tool so they could sell it? Some people like yourself are passionate about why they did it and are excited about their actions. Still, most are passionate about creating and selling a tool to a more prominent company.

Right. For everyone listening or watching, I have no plans on selling, nor is that… I’m passionate about this community. I love what I do. Yeah, you’re a rare breed, but most people in the tech space… and it’s not because it’s money-related. They know competition will catch up to them if they’re not constantly innovating. And it would help if you were passionate about staying on top of that trend. Yeah, for sure. A little pro tip here for anyone who’s like, okay, I’m a podcast guest, and a book tour sounds like something in my future. What company do you go with if you’re going to have the book like worked on for you?

I would look at all the look at podcasts and look at other podcasting conferences and see which publishing house, even if it’s like an indie one, is sponsoring that event because they’re building relationships with podcasters, and that’s what you need—so very, very good point. And there are places. Yeah, that’s, I didn’t think of that, but that’s, I’ll start saying that too. I like it. Cool. Good stuff, man. Hey, listen, give, and take in this relationship. That’s what Chris and I’ve always had, man. We’re going on the future of podcasts and ending it here. We will spend some time here, but I want to discuss it first.

Monetization Strategies for Podcasters

What you see happening at the high end, just given Katie Krimitsos, like her entire meditation woman’s network, is vast. And so I don’t know what you see from her perspective specifically, but I know you’re tied in with many of the high-end people. You probably see some things the rest of us don’t get to see. What do you see happening at that top level? We’ll be very brief with this to give everyone an idea of what this looks like from the influencer celebrity standpoint. So, Joe Rogan’s contract is about to go up for negotiation. His $200 million deal is about to come to a close. The estimates across the board are it will be a multi-billion dollar renewal.

I foresee some very big 7, 8, 9 figure deals happening, and how that helps the independents is that money; I know it will sound wild. Still, it does trickle down to everybody else because it raises the rates at the very bottom and what a listener is worth for an advertiser to get in front of. So you’ll see a lot of that, and right now, the one advantage that podcasters have that many people don’t realize.

“I foresee some very big 7, 8, 9 figure deals happening, and how that helps the independents is that money; I know it will sound wild. Still, it does trickle down to everybody else because it raises the rates at the very bottom and what a listener is worth for an advertiser to get in front of. So you’ll see a lot of that, and right now, the one advantage that podcasters have that many people don’t realize.” – Chris Krimitsos

Podcasts have a thing called host read. Now, YouTubers, for instance, get what they call it. They don’t call it host read. They call it; I’d like to call it, a sponsor deal and that’s usually where they get paid thousands of dollars to go to Target or some brand shopping, depending on the YouTuber. Still, if it’s a shopping channel, they will pay you to go to their place, and I get paid three, four, or five grand depending on how big the influencer is, But those are one-off deals.

Podcasters, especially the larger ones, are represented by more extensive networks depending on the niche. They get $25 CPM, which is a high premium. You don’t see that in any other. Very few. The only other area you’re going to see that may be even YouTube, and I don’t know if it comes close, is in the financial space, financial influencers, so imagine a podcaster getting a host read ad at 25 CPM and these more extensive networks.

They’re telling advertisers you have to pay a premium because this is one of the only areas where people listen to audio, and the host can give you a natural brand lift by authentically talking about your brand. So that’s why some podcasts have fewer views than YouTubers, but they’re getting paid four or five times X. You also have to look at that number.

“They’re telling advertisers you have to pay a premium because this is one of the only areas where people listen to audio, and the host can give you a natural brand lift by authentically talking about your brand. So that’s why some podcasts have fewer views than YouTubers, but they’re getting paid four or five times X.” – Chris Krimitsos

They are becoming more robust. And many of these more prominent companies are stating the case behind the scenes, saying, hey, you’re not paying for a 10-second video view. You’re paying for someone who listens to long form. They probably listen to the entire show. The majority of podcast listeners listen throughout the whole show. Like the numbers have been done there, and that ad holds a lot of weight. Therefore, you’re going to pay 25 CPM. Now, the networks will take 30 to 40% off the top.

That still means you’re going to make 16 CPM in a podcast. We could do two of those, three of those, and sometimes four of those in a show, depending on how they leverage them. So it could be exceptionally, it could be very, it could be very fruitful for people that are building momentum in their downloads. Man. What I love about this is it goes beyond just running advertisements. And here’s why that’s the baseline of this. So, as that climbs, every other form of monetization for podcasts will climb.

And if you’re the guest being like, well, why do I care? You care because the better off the podcast host is doing, the more they can make it, and the better they can reach their ideal audience. That’s right. Money is not everything, but it helps podcasters connect with the people they want to serve. And that’s a massive win on either side of the mic. So I love that insight, Chris. Before I let you go, man, do you have? I only know what I know; where we sit is hugely different. Is there anything else about the future of podcasting that we should be aware of or know about?

Future Trends in Podcasting

So one thing that Dave Segura, one of the founders of Glassbox in New York, said that was interesting, and I’ll share it with you, is they were banking on podcasting just exploding in growth. And because they said the music industry, they were going through different models and always exploded out. But in the last couple of years, podcasting has retracted. So after COVID, there was an explosion, but then it retracted. And he said, what we’ve learned.

Podcasting comprises a vibrant, supportive listener base that is extremely loyal, and they want excellent quality content. And he goes, it’s based on something other than like everybody will listen to podcasts. He goes, it’s based on great content, finding its audience, and then growing a rabbit audience base over time. And I thought that was very honest of him.

“Podcasting comprises a vibrant, supportive listener base that is extremely loyal, and they want excellent quality content” – Chris Krimitsos

Many of these networks gave huge minimum guarantees based on everything growing forever. Now, we did have a weird Kovats bike where people were home and listening more, and then they returned to work. When you put that together, it creates a very.

There is a unique relationship between those two people. And that’s why those relationships are so valuable. I advise someone who’s a creator to be careful of sacrificing their integrity in any way, shape, or form. And what I mean by that is, I’m okay with you having an ad you like. I might not use the product, but it’s a good product. I’m okay with that.

Recommending a product you never use, you don’t even know what it is, so you must be careful. That is a slippery slope or Thinking to yourself. They’ll listen anyway so that I will mail it in today. I’m just going to do a half-assed job on my podcast. No, a podcast listener, Right, even if it’s on video. They’re watching and listening. They’re paying attention to everything you’re doing in a very detailed way that they pick up on those nuances, so sometimes you’re better off telling them truthfully.

That, hey, I had a rough week. I did my best to prepare for this. I hope you enjoy it. Some of the best podcasters have a monologue upfront. And they’ll monologue a little bit before they go into, let’s say, the interview, and they have a particular relationship with their audience. I’m not saying everybody should do that. There’s a reason why they do that: they have an intimate bond with their listeners. So know that this is an extraordinary place. We regard it as such. Your listeners regard it as such.

And there’s tremendous upside for growth because many people want the quick hit.  Chris, man, I so appreciate your time today. One last thing I want to share is that Chris and I were at the same conference together a few months ago, and we grabbed a spot at the fire pit late at night, just us and a few other people.

Chris leaned over to me and asked Alex what we could do to serve podcasters better. And I love the purity of that question. This is like the end of the day. There’s no one; there’s no reason to put that on for the people and be like, Oh, look at them. Right. It was just me and Chris. And I so appreciate your heart, man. I appreciate that you have been at this for so long; you’re out there to serve podcasters, man. So again, thank you so much for your time, for sharing your wisdom, being here today, man. I appreciate you.

No, thank you. And you know, we recommend the world of PodMatch everywhere I go, like Pied Piper. It’s been one of my first tips that I recommend immediately. But keep doing what you’re doing. You love your customers and love this medium, and we need more people like yourself and myself to help all the new people come on board and welcome them to the medium. Man. I appreciate you again. Thank you.


About Chris Krimitsos

Chris Krimitsos holds the Guinness World Records™ title for the largest attendance for a virtual podcasting conference in one week and is a leading expert on podcasting and on-demand audio. His international conference, PodFest, is the longest-running continuous in-person podcasting event in the world and attracts thousands of attendees from over 50 countries each year.


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